When Loyalty Holds You Back In Your Career And How To Take The Leap To The Next Level - A Conversation With an Amazon Exec

In this episode, I interview Tanya Bonamico, a Senior Product Manager at Amazon, leading a team of 50+ for seller risk management and a CareerClimb® client. 

We discuss her career journey and the challenges she faced while working in a long-term role. Tanya shares her insights on the price of loyalty, the struggle for career advancement, and the importance of seeking support and making bold decisions. Her story sheds light on the need to prioritize personal growth and recognize when it's time to explore new opportunities.

We talk about

• The challenges of staying loyal to a company and its impact on career growth,
• The realization that flight risk often takes priority over merit for promotions,
• The importance of seeking support from peers and a skilled career coach,
• Making bold decisions and taking leaps when growth opportunities are limited,
• Tanya's personal journey and the lessons learned along the way,

And much more!

Transcript

In this interview, Lisa Kostova, the host of the show, welcomes Tanya Bonamico as her first-ever guest. Tanya, originally from Bulgaria like Lisa, is a Senior Product Manager at Amazon, overseeing a team of 54 professionals and leading the company's largest bad actor prevention program. With an impressive background that includes over 14 years at American Express, Tanya's journey in the tech industry has been marked by determination and a drive for success. Lisa met Tanya during an executive accelerator program that she runs, where Tanya's passion and readiness to take her career to the next level stood out. In this interview, Tanya shares her experiences and insights on her career path, decision-making, and the importance of personal growth.

Lisa: Tanya, it's a pleasure to have you here today.

Tanya: Thank you, Lisa. I'm glad to be here.

Lisa: Tanya, let's start by reflecting on the time when we first met. You were a standout client of mine, driven and highly skilled. However, there was a phase in your career where you faced challenges in advancing further. Can you take us back to that time and share how you resolved it? What led you to eventually decide that your journey at American Express had come to an end after 14 years?

Tanya: Thank you for the introduction, Lisa, and for the opportunity to be a part of your Denali Executive Accelerator training program. It played a significant role in my decision-making process. 

At the time, I was working on one of the company's biggest projects, venturing into the banking space, developing the platform and capabilities for our new ticketing products. Although the work was challenging and provided exposure to management, I became frustrated with the lack of career progression, despite indications that I was being groomed for a VP role.

When a leadership change occurred and someone else secured the position, I faced a choice. I could either wait for future opportunities and continue doing the same thing for another few years or explore other options within the company where I could build a brand and reputation as a product leader.

I wasn't initially inclined to leave American Express, as I had grown both personally and professionally within the company. However, I felt there were no further growth opportunities within my current team. So, I began exploring other possibilities within the organization where my product expertise and leadership skills could be recognized.

Breaking into a new team for career advancement is challenging, as teams typically prefer developing and promoting internal talent. I did manage to become a director by moving from a senior manager to a new team. This move was possible thanks to a leader who took a chance on me and allowed me to grow based on our conversations. 

However, such opportunities are exceptions rather than the rule. Generally, it is understood that to get promoted, you need to build your brand within your current team and rely on your leader's support to reach the next level. 

I went through all the necessary steps and came close to promotion several times, but I had to be honest with myself and evaluate if I wanted to continue in the same industry or explore new possibilities where my leadership and product expertise would be valued.

Lisa: That's a relatable experience for many professionals. The frustration of not reaching the desired position despite promising indications can be discouraging. So, what made you finally take the chance to explore opportunities outside of American Express, a company you were loyal to for so long?

Tanya: Indeed, the frustration of feeling stagnant in one's career, despite the exciting work and scope, led me to consider new paths. It took me a while to even entertain the ideaof pursuing a career outside of American Express, as I had a deep sense of loyalty to the company and aligned strongly with its values. 

However, with the support and encouragement of my peers in the Denali Executive Accelerator community, who acted as my career coaches and advisors, I realized that my leadership skills and product acumen could be transferable to other industries.

With your coaching and their guidance, I made the decision to join Amazon, taking on a role in the risk space, which was a new area for me. Looking back, it was the right move for my personal growth and career aspirations.

Lisa: I love how you emphasize the importance of seeking different perspectives and support from trusted peers or coaches. Having a safe space to evaluate one's options and consider alternative paths is invaluable. In your case, these two women in your accountability group played a significant role.

Looking back, if you had the chance to advise your former self, what would you suggest in terms of reading the signs of career progression or recognizing when promises may not be fulfilled?

Tanya: If I could go back and advise my former self, I would recommend taking promises regarding career advancement with a grain of salt. It's crucial to question whether the person making the promise has the authority and control to guarantee your next role or promotion. One should distinguish between genuine opportunities and wishful thinking.

Additionally, when you sense that you're not receiving the desired support in terms of promotions, exciting projects, team leadership, or visibility to senior leaders, it's important not to make excuses. While it can be daunting, you must be honest with yourself and determine the next steps. Will you wait and hope for the new leadership team to recognize your potential and invest in you? Will you explore other teams and opportunities within your current organization? Or perhaps, as in my case, you'll consider if you're in the right field to pursue your desired growth.

Understanding your aspirations and finding the right environment, company, and team aligned with your goals are essential for making informed decisions and feeling confident about the choices you make.

Lisa: It seems that your former managers valued you greatly and wanted to promote you, but the power structures in the organization limited their control. They held onto hope and fed you hope as well because they didn't want to lose you. Would you say that a manager who believes in and values you can sometimes cause you to stay at a place "too long"?

Tanya: That could be the case, but it ultimately depends on factors like personal growth, learning, and respect for the leader. In my situation, I believed I could continue making an impact and saw potential for growth. Unfortunately, when both my leader and their leader left, I had to stick around hoping the new leadership would recognize my value. However, they had their own perspectives and observations, which created a different dynamic.

Lisa: Relationships within a company play a significant role in satisfaction and growth. I've noticed that companies, especially with women, sometimes take advantage of loyalty. When someone becomes skilled, the company wants to keep them where they are rather than promoting them to the next level where there may be more risk. Loyalty is emphasized, especially if the company has shown goodwill towards the individual. But when does loyalty no longer make sense?

Tanya: You've captured it well. I felt a sense of owing it to the team and the organization to stick around, even when my sponsors moved on. Loyalty was a factor for me. Unfortunately, leaders sometimes incorrectly use loyalty to determine who is expendable and who will stick around. In my unsuccessful VP role interviews, comments like "We could not afford to lose this internal candidate" were often directed at male counterparts. Women may be seen as more likely to stick around due to loyalty, which leads to being passed over for opportunities. Instead of assessing the right fit for the job, they prioritize the flight risk.

Lisa: It's like the squeakiest wheel gets the grease. Those who don't make noise or express their intentions often don't receive the attention they deserve. I've seen male counterparts secure additional offers or boldly state their demands, which kickstarts action. Women, on the other hand, often reach a breaking point before doing the same. I experienced this when leaving Zynga. They made enticing offers after I mentally checked out. If I had taken action earlier, when I was still invested, it would have been more beneficial. So, making a move earlier, before being fully committed to leaving, is wise advice, wouldn't you agree?

Tanya: In a way, yes. I did request a compensation change when I didn't get the VP role I believed was mine. However, organizational processes delayed the decision, and I received my raise the week I gave my notice. It was too late into the process for me to stay. I'm grateful that I was unhappy enough to take the risk of joining a new company and area of leadership. It showed that my skills are transferable, and there are people willing to invest in me. Now I have the opportunity to grow with Amazon, an iconic brand.

Lisa: One of the things I admire is when people leave their jobs without regrets, feeling that they've grown and enjoyed the journey. Starting a new chapter with excitement and gratitude sets a positive mindset for the first 30, 60, 90 days, especially in a demanding company like Amazon. Speaking of Amazon, it has a reputation for being a high-pressure work environment. From your perspective, how would you assess Amazon's culture and what are your keys to success in that fast-paced environment?

Tanya: I wouldn't call it a high-stress environment, but it's definitely fast-paced. In my first week, I had to understand my role and make a difference. I was fortunate to have an experienced team, but I also had to quickly gather information from them to identify gaps and plan for the upcoming year. It's important to give yourself permission to be the new person and not expect to be an expert right away. 

Coming from a 14-year tenure at American Express, I had to learn the culture, processes, and expectations at Amazon while also understanding my team. Being kind to myself and seeking advice from stakeholders and advisors helped me contribute and set the direction for my team.

Lisa: Balancing output and relationship-building is crucial in the early stages of a new role. How do you manage that when you're expected to deliver a one-year plan within the first week?

Tanya: In the first week, meeting people may take a backseat when you need to submit a plan. It's important to consider the team's preliminary thoughts, address pain points, and identify key stakeholders who may require our support. 

Prioritization becomes essential. We evaluate the value, effort, and resources required for each initiative and determine what can be committed to and what becomes a stretch goal. It's about understanding and using math to draw the line, considering the available human resources. With additional investment, we can pursue those stretch goals.

Lisa: When ramping up in a new place, many people tend to keep their heads down and work independently. However, you mentioned the importance of relying on your team. Could you break down how much time you spent with your team versus working alone during your first week?

Tanya: Most of my time was spent with my team, understanding the dynamics and problem space. I wanted to learn from their past strategies and avoid repeating unsuccessful approaches. Trusting your team and seeking their expertise is essential. Coming in with a fresh perspective allowed me to ask questions and understand the reasoning behind decisions. I embraced the "I'm new" card, seeking advice and consultation from those more experienced.

Lisa: Trusting your team and being open to learning from them is a valuable approach. In competitive environments like Amazon, some individuals feel the need to prove themselves and assert their ego. However, you took a different approach, focusing on collaboration and avoiding the need to be seen as the hero. Do you think this strategy has been beneficial for you in Amazon?

Tanya: That's an interesting question. While I wanted to prove myself as the right person for the job, I knew I had to learn the space first. I couldn't come in with grand ideas on day one. I needed to understand the baseline, identify areas for improvement, and consider stakeholder needs. In Amazon, there's no room for ego, and while it can be competitive, it's driven by a commitment to doing what's best for customers. We invest in the most effective solutions and reallocate resources accordingly. I'm thrilled to be part of a customer-obsessed company that prioritizes value.

Lisa: Task conflict versus personality conflict is an important distinction made by organizational psychologist Adam Grant. Companies with healthy cultures differentiate between ideas and personal failures, allowing individuals to contribute without harming their careers. It's great to hear that your experience with Amazon aligns with a healthy culture. However, not everyone operates with the same approach. Some individuals come into new environments with grand ideas without fully understanding the space they're entering.

Tanya: I believe sustainable change requires understanding what needs to be addressed first. Coming in with preconceived notions can hinder progress. It's important to learn the status quo, identify strengths to preserve, and recognize areas for improvement. Avoiding an egocentric mindset is crucial when trying to lead and make lasting changes.

Lisa: Understanding your own assets and superpowers is important, especially for successful women in tech. Your ability to navigate complexity, learn from scratch, and operate with maturity and security sets you apart. Can you share a few of your top values from our program?

Tanya: Authenticity is crucial, allowing individuals to be themselves without judgment. Impact at scale is important, requiring trust and independence to make decisions and execute without constant oversight. Lastly, understanding the value and purpose behind your work is motivating and essential for long-term commitment.

Lisa: It's clear that you're on a fulfilling journey. What's next for you in the coming months?

Tanya: We're focused on expanding the mechanisms we've created within Amazon to other areas of the company. This involves exploring opportunities, making adjustments, and building additional capabilities. The sky is the limit, and we're excited about the potential in the next three to eight years.

Lisa: It's inspiring to see your passion and connection to your work. Thank you for the wonderful interview, Tanya. Your insights and approach are valuable. I hope our listeners find them meaningful.

Tanya: Thank you, Lisa. I want to give a shout-out to the executive accelerator programs your team offers. They're life-changing and can guide women in tech who are at a crossroads.